Support Board
Date/Time: Tue, 04 Mar 2025 14:58:59 +0000
sc.TradeServiceAccountBalance produces a different number under Teton than TT
View Count: 1054
| [2021-12-14 19:55:46] |
| TriStar Trading - Posts: 148 |
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Maybe you are aware of this but I thought I would present it anyhow. I track my balance etc. using a custom study I built. The study uses the sc.TradeServiceAccountBalance function. Under TT the balance the study calculated always matched the sc.TradeServiceAccountBalance. Now under Teton there is a discrepancy. I contacted Stage5 and got this back: "That difference is due to the per-trade fees that are in place. Dorman has a default rate of $2.50 per contract applied to each trade you make that deducts from the account balance. Please keep in mind that these are NOT your actual fees, they are just an estimate used to help prevent accounts from falling debit from fees. The actual fees can only be seen on your account statements." So when I make this adjustment for the 2.50 everything balances on my screen. BTW, this is a per side rate that is debited intraday. In the Trade Account Monitor window this 2.50 is reflected in the Daily Profit/Loss field. So if you show profit of $100 in your Trade Window, and you have 10 filled contracts, the Trade Account Monitor window will show daily PnL of 75.00 while the Trade Window will show $100. Stage5 uses the Trade Account Monitor value for calculating the number of contracts available to trade. FWIW, 2.50 seems like a fairly large debit when the Micro ES is only .57 per side. If trading a smaller account it can reduce your intraday buying power a bit. At 40 fills and a $100 day trade rate you are reduced by one contract availability. And if monitoring margin call levels you likely have less of balance than shown in the Trade Window under Daily PnL. So I don't think the TT balance reflected this intraday debit by Stage5. I don't auto trade but I would think someone who does needs to be aware of this. Thanks, Mike
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2021-12-14 20:00:13
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| [2021-12-14 20:49:41] |
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So you are trading the micro ES? We will make sure the clearing firm has the commission properly configured. And what clearing firm is this? Advantage or Dorman. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2021-12-14 20:49:57
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| [2021-12-14 21:13:30] |
| TriStar Trading - Posts: 148 |
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It is Dorman. It's not really a commission however. As explained to which is above it is temporary intraday debit to keep aperson from going into "debitness". It is not the actual fees that appear on apersons statement. Since then, and likely not related. I was long 4 MES and hit flatten and could not get out of the trade. I contacted Stage5 and they saw me as zero long whereas the trade window had me 4 long. I eventually got out (way later than I wanted too) by exiting one contract at a time. Kevin at Stage5 is looking intop this. If you want please feel free to start another thread. I can also attach the Trade Service Log if needed.
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| [2021-12-14 22:00:36] |
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I was long 4 MES and hit flatten and could not get out of the trade. Yes they brought this to our attention right away and we found the reason for the problem. There is a global order quantity limit set on the iLink. We have asked the clearing firm permission to remove it. Or rather to increase it. A limit is always set on the iLink.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2021-12-14 22:14:15
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| [2021-12-14 22:34:31] |
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The order quantity limit has been sufficiently increased.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2021-12-14 22:37:20] |
| TriStar Trading - Posts: 148 |
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I apologize for probably mixing threads. The first post referenced a discrepancy between the Trade Account Monitor Daily Profit/Loss and the value displayed in the Daily PnL window of the Attached Trade Window. I saw in the documentation this may be expected? Even with Teton? In my balance monitor study I use the DailyStats.ClosedTradesProfitLoss statement. This apparently grabs something other than the Daily Profit/Loss which is being displayed in the Trade Account Monitor Daily Profit/Loss field correct? The Trade Account Monitor Daily Profit/Loss field reflects the $2.50 per lot temporary debit Stage5 puts on an account intraday. The DailyStats.ClosedTradesProfitLoss statement does not. I also use the sc.TradeServiceAccountBalance statement and that statement correctly reflects the Cash Balance field of the Trade Account Monitor. So that is the first issue. The second issue involves my inability to flatten a trade when needed. When I called Stage5 Sergio said he saw my account as flat and could not flatten the trade. Am I responsible for the additional loss on the trade when the software did not function properly? SC is a great package and I have never had a problem until switching to Teton. I realize there can be bugs to smooth out with new software eveen if you are very good at what you do which I think you are. I did software design, development, and implementaion for 18 years before trading so I know things can happen even with the most thorough test plan. Thanks! Mike |
| [2021-12-15 00:38:38] |
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We will go over the commission issue with Dorman and Stage 5. When I called Stage5 Sergio said he saw my account as flat and could not flatten the trade. This does not make sense. The account could not have been seen as flat. Although the same order quantity limit restriction would have been in place for the broker preventing them from flattening the position using a single order. This is what they told us. They could not flatten the position either using a single market order. They will have definitely seen the same Position Quantity and that is what they indicated.There was no malfunction. The order quantity limit which was set for this particular clearing firm according to what they wanted, put a limit on the maximum order quantity allowed for an order. It is a safety to prevent the submission of an abnormally large order. This has been increased to the amount specified by the clearing firm. It was previously at as agreed by them. We are not saying anyone is at fault here. We will discuss the matter with Stage 5. Update: Once again, there definitively was no malfunction. There was a global order quantity set according to what the clearing firm wanted in order to be protective during their initial release with users doing limited trading. This limit has been increased according to what the clearing firm has specified. We are not charging anything for this service and it delivers a huge savings for customers. This issue is absolutely not something we would ever be responsible for. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2021-12-15 21:59:51
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| [2021-12-15 21:58:18] |
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Dorman has set a per contract commission of 1.00 per side, for the micro contracts on the Teton order routing system. So this applies to your account since it is with Dorman. The first post referenced a discrepancy between the Trade Account Monitor Daily Profit/Loss and the value displayed in the Daily PnL window of the Attached Trade Window. I saw in the documentation this may be expected? Even with Teton?
Yes definitely because these are calculated fully independent from each other.In my balance monitor study I use the DailyStats.ClosedTradesProfitLoss statement. This apparently grabs something other than the Daily Profit/Loss which is being displayed in the Trade Account Monitor Daily Profit/Loss field correct?
Yes this is correct. How that is calculated is explained here:Help With Daily Profit/Loss Value Also the post above has been updated. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2021-12-15 22:01:31
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| [2021-12-16 05:33:01] |
| TriStar Trading - Posts: 148 |
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Thanks for addressing this. I don't know what Sergio at Stage5 was looking at or seeing. I just know he said "I see you as flat" for whatever reason. It's a moot point anyhow now. Just wanted folks to know it wasn't a lie. I will be continuing this conversation with Stage5. As you stated, the code performed as it should and there was no malfunction. The issue turns out to be in the implemention of the backroom setup of Teton by Dorman since I have used SC for years and the [Flatten] button has always executed perfectly before this switch. So Dorman changed the parameters of my account because of Teton being new and did not inform anyone including Stage5 it seems since they could not flatten the position either without executing one at a time. Am I really the only person this has happened too. Without having a very detailed understanding of how functionally all this clearing, routing, and risk desk stuff works, it seems to me however they all three need to work in concert or else. Maybe it's a good thing it happened on a very small account with the MES and not a larger account with say the ES. I appreciate you are not charging for Teton. That is indeed a cost savings for customers and an industry first that I'm aware of. Unfortunatley for me at this point it has only cost me money. I hope this event has drawn attention to the possibility of what happend and it's resolution will make sure no one else has this happen. Time to turn the page on this with you at SC. If I may ask, has providing ACSIL statements that grab the Account Balance Monitor fields ever be considered? Thanks! Mike |
| [2021-12-16 12:21:15] |
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. So Dorman changed the parameters of my account because of Teton being new and did not inform anyone including Stage5 it seems since they could not flatten the position either without executing one at a time. The limit was a system wide setting.Am I really the only person this has happened too. No. We can see it has been encountered by other accounts as well. This is the first time we have heard of this.We have checked the log and you have encountered this very same order quantity rejection for other orders as well: Orders 2021-12-13 11:07:19.195143 MESH22_FUT_CME Order from DTC client #282. Sierra Chart. 68.115.101.249 | Client text: Tag: 8 Stop Trail.twconfig
So why did you not say anything to your broker at that time? This particular systemwide limit would affect both entries and exits. At that time if you simply told them, and they then brought it to the attention of the clearing firm and/or us, we are sure the limit would have been increased.Orders 2021-12-13 11:07:19.195197 MESH22_FUT_CME Trade Order Error - Alert: Order quantity exceeds maximum allowed Unfortunatley for me at this point it has only cost me money.
You will save money over time.And for the record, this issue did not occur with any other firm because none of them have this tight of a limit. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2021-12-16 12:27:41
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| [2021-12-16 12:29:22] |
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If I may ask, has providing ACSIL statements that grab the Account Balance Monitor fields ever be considered? We will add a function to get all of the available data.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2021-12-16 14:17:47] |
| TriStar Trading - Posts: 148 |
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Thank you for the info. It helps to understand. I did say something to the broker. See attached email picture from 12/13 at 14:18. I was assured the problem had been rectified. I think a reasonable person would not be out of line for expecting if Dorman was going to change settings they would let the affected in on it. Not your fault of course. The "extra" loss was around $160. Not much in real terms. But in routing @ .20 per round trip as with TT it's 800 round trip lots to breakeven. My apologies for thinking earlier that the software had a bug. I only thought that because of what Sergio had mentioned about not seeing a position for me at the time. Thanks much for doing the function to grab those fields for the Account Balance Monitor. Have a great day! Mike Date Time Of Last Edit: 2021-12-16 14:45:42
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| [2021-12-16 16:09:15] |
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We have discussed this with the broker and explained the difference between a product and account level order quantity limit and the global limit, that restricted the order. The global order quantity limit is normally set at 100. We would also say Dorman is not at fault here. Another thing to understand about the Teton order routing service is that it uses very good risk management. If the order quantity limit is set to 1 for a particular product and account and you have a position of 4 you want to flatten, that flatten order will be allowed through and is allowed to exceed the order quantity limit. So long as you are actually just closing the position or reducing the quantity of the position. Position limits still apply though. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2021-12-16 16:12:38
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| [2021-12-16 17:08:54] |
| TriStar Trading - Posts: 148 |
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I want to whole heartedly thank you all for your efforts in resolving this issue. This is the last I will post in this thread. I know you have better things to work on and not enough time to do them all. My position is stil that somethign went wrong, not on your end, but when somethign goes wrong there is negligence or an oversight somewhere in the equation. How can there not be? A simple notice from Dorman or the brokers representing Dorman to Teton customers that global limits were set to one lot per order until they were comfortable with Teton would have avoided this situation. It's good that you educated the broker on the different types of order limits. At this point however I feel as though, because of the added loss to the position, that I have paid for this education. Since I'm the customer that doesn't seem fair or right to me. I have been on both sides being a past owner of a business and I know how I would have treated my customer in a situation like this. Hopefully you can see my point. So far you all are the adults in the room. We will see how the other parties respond. :) Thanks so much, Mike |
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