Support Board
Date/Time: Sun, 22 Dec 2024 19:29:31 +0000
Unable to clear false open orders
View Count: 3090
| [2015-08-17 15:17:19] |
| User370869 - Posts: 5 |
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Hello...Im using sierra chart with Amp Futures / TTNET and its been confirmed by their trade desk that I have no working or open positions. However, the platform does not reflect that on the Trade Activity Log. I am unable to clear out the false open orders. The clear buttom under Edit is gray out. I also try Refresh Data from Service but still was unable to clear false orders. Please help
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| [2015-08-17 17:11:15] |
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We need more information about this. Are you are referring to an actual Open Order or to a Trade Position? And specifically where in Sierra Chart do you see this "false open orders"? Refer to the instructions here to clear the Trade Activity Log: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/doc_TradeActivityLog.php#ClearingtheLog Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2015-08-18 14:01:58] |
| User370869 - Posts: 5 |
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I have no working or open orders as my account was liquidated and was not allowed to trade for 24 hours. But when the restriction to trade was lifted, the Trade Activity Log shows I have 3 open quantity short position on an instrument. There is no specific indication for "false open orders". Im just referring to fills on the trade activity log that shouldn't be there. The Orders and Positions window does reflect that I have no open or working orders, but not in the Trade activity Log.
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| [2015-08-18 19:04:59] |
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What you are referring to is the Trade Stats for Charts tab. You need to clear the Trade Activity data by following the instructions here: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/doc_TradeActivityLog.php#TradeStatsResettingData Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2015-08-18 19:53:07] |
| User370869 - Posts: 5 |
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I'm unable to clear anything on the Trad Stats for Charts tab because the all options are gray out except Copy All, under the Edit tab.
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| [2015-08-18 20:14:35] |
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The instructions here explain what to do: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/doc_TradeActivityLog.php#ClearingtheLog You need to clear the order and fill activity on the first tab. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2015-08-18 20:14:57
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| [2015-08-18 20:44:17] |
| User370869 - Posts: 5 |
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Unfortunately, that didn't work. It's still showing I have three open short positions under the Trade Stats for Charts
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| [2015-08-18 21:46:41] |
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This means you did not clear the Trade Activity for the Symbol, Order Activity Source (non-simulated) and Trade Account. You need to be sure you are actually seeing the order fills which make up the position, on the Trade Activity tab before you clear them. The documentation is very thorough on how to do this. Please go through the steps again. Unless the problem is that the order fills are being downloaded from the server again at step 8. If so, there is nothing you can do about this. In which case disregard the Trade Stats for Charts tab. Most of the time the information there is going to be wrong anyway. As general policy, we do not support that tab. The information there has a high probability of being wrong ( this is actually written on that tab) and it should not be used unless you understand how it works. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2015-08-18 21:48:44
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| [2015-08-18 21:57:44] |
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Refer to this information here about this: NOTICE:Trade >> Trade Activity Log >> Trade Stats for Charts is no longer Supported Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2015-08-18 23:07:17] |
| bekitz3 - Posts: 83 |
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To: User370869 Please see: SC/TTNet not talking with AMP auto-trim/liquidate and Sometimes life has long complex problems (AMP/TTNet) |
| [2015-08-18 23:56:37] |
| User370869 - Posts: 5 |
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WOW. Thanks Bekitz3. Now I understand what is going on. You are right indeed. There is no communication between Amp/TTNET auto liquidation and SC/TTNET. And Ive come to the conclusion that there is no way to clear the false open orders that are still showing on the Trade Activity Log tab. For my peace of mind, I had to call trade desk after todays trading session to make sure I am indeed flat. I traded October crude oil contract today so its not going to mess up with the Sept contract false open orders. I'm anxiously waiting for tonights client report to confirm that as well. Hopefully the engineers at SC support board are taking this issue seriously. This mishap is totally detrimental to traders like us.
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| [2015-08-19 00:40:46] |
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Take what seriously? What issue? What mishap? At this moment we are aware of zero issues which require our attention. An incorrect Open Quantity on the Trade Stats for Charts tab which says "The following is based on order fills on the Trade Activity Log. For live trading the fill data can be incomplete and result in inaccurate values here." is not considered a mishap. Our current policy is we will spend no further time responding to questions about this other than linking to a dedicated help topic about it. And Ive come to the conclusion that there is no way to clear the false open orders that are still showing on the Trade Activity Log tab.
Did you follow the wrong procedure to clear the Trade Activity? Or did you follow the right procedure, and after you reconnected to the data feed some order fills were downloaded, and indicated an incorrect Open Quantity on the Trade Stats for Charts tab? Describe the procedure that you followed in detail and what happened at each step. We are 100% certain there is nothing more than a misunderstanding here. There is no no other possibility if you are questioning the values you are seeing on the Trade Stats for Charts tab. Who are you going to trust here? Us who are the engineers of Sierra Chart, or someone else on the outside who does not have intimate knowledge of how Sierra Chart is designed. We put a lot of work into the Sierra Chart documentation to make sure it is thorough, accurate and provides detailed information about the functionality. Do you understand how the Open Quantity is arrived at on the Trade Stats for Charts tab? Refer to the next post about this. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2015-08-19 01:12:51
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| [2015-08-19 00:58:51] |
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We will tell you how the Open Quantity is arrived at in the Trade Stats for Charts tab and you can see why it can be inaccurate. All the fills that Sierra Chart has in its list for a particular Trade Account and Symbol, for non-simulated trading are used to calculate the Open Quantity for a non-simulated Trade Account and Symbol. There is 0% chance that Sierra Chart is going to have a complete list of fills for an account to begin with. Calculation Method: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/doc_TradeActivityLog.php#TradeStatsOpenQuantityFieldCalculation Last updated: 2015-08-19 Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2015-08-20 09:09:11
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| [2015-08-19 01:04:05] |
| bekitz3 - Posts: 83 |
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This mishap is totally detrimental to traders like us
It certainly could be. Although the irony is when I first encountered this in Nov-2014 I actually profited from the sequence of events. It occurred 3 separate times trading NQ before I was able to pinpoint what was exactly going on. I had to reiterate several times to the trade desk agent that I was not seeking any sort of statement credit or reimbursement. Just wanted to clear this up for the future.When I first reported it here on the SC Support Board in Jan-2015 (SC/TTNet not talking with AMP auto-trim/liquidate) it occurred from a CL trade where I lost money as a result. I was in contact with AMP in Nov-2014 about it and was waiting for some potential resolution, but when the event occurred again in Jan-2015 and on a different instrument I attempted to involve SC Support in the loop. Hence the 2 threads cited in post #10. Unfortunately broker trade desks & software support staff probably get a ton of people complaining of glitches/issues that led to a loss of money thus not taking these reports very seriously.......they just figure the trader is trying to pass the blame for poor trade management, etc and are just venting their frustrations accordingly. And in many cases that is true. But not in this case. |
| [2015-08-19 01:12:22] |
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It is not as though we do not care about the kind of issue described in post #14, but it is not related to an incorrect Open Quantity on the Trade Stats for Charts tab being wrong. It can be wrong no matter what trading service you use Sierra Chart with. Whether that is TransAct, Rithmic or CQG or TT. It does not matter. If the kind of problem in post #14 is something that we would have to be involved in, the backend trading platform system provider like TT would be in contact with us about specific programming changes that we need to make. We would work on those immediately, they would be tested and carefully reviewed, and we would report this to TT and to the clearing company. At that time we would force all users to update. No such communication has taken place. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2015-08-19 01:14:06
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| [2015-08-19 01:17:58] |
| bekitz3 - Posts: 83 |
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or someone else on the outside who does not have intimate knowledge of how Sierra Chart is designed
You are correct. I am an outsider from a developer/programmers point of view and of course I do not have an intimate knowledge of how Sierra Charts is designed.But I do have a intimate knowledge of real-world trading and how reality & software intention don't always intersect in perfect harmony. Most of the time they do and everyone's happy. As cited in the threads from post #10, AMP acknowledges that this discrepancy exists. I would think from a developers perspective who has several offerings as far as broker choice & data feeds you would take this info as an educational opportunity to understand what actually is happening in this specific case of SC paired with TTNet as the data feed and AMP's auto liquidate software. Like I said in previously cited threads, AMP indicates that the SC/CQG combo does not demonstrate this issue (IOW....they communicate with each other). Instead you choose to get insanely defensive. |
| [2015-08-19 01:26:58] |
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Instead you choose to get insanely defensive. We will do everything we can to set the facts straight. If you call this "insanely defensive" so be it. We take nothing back. And it would be very much a disservice to the user, if we were not clear about the facts and the user was being misled about something and given incorrect information. It is not about defending Sierra Chart, it is about the user understanding exactly what has happened so they are clear on the facts and so they can make their own decision on how to handle this.I would think from a developers perspective who has several offerings as far as broker choice & data feeds you would take this info as an educational opportunity to understand what actually is happening in this specific case of SC paired with TTNet as the data feed and AMP's auto liquidate software. OK, and we have done that.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2015-08-19 01:44:11
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| [2015-08-19 01:30:59] |
| bekitz3 - Posts: 83 |
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It can be wrong no matter what trading service you use Sierra Chart with.
I've used SC for 5+ years. With Velocity Futures, my own license, Transact, & AMP/TTNetThe only times the open position status/qty has been incorrect is specifically with the trio of SC, TTNet, and an AMP originated auto-liquidate event. That's it. We're talking countless events where everything is fine. It just so happens that this specific set of circumstances dramatically exposes the trader to potentially catastrophic events. Let me rephrase that last part. Traders are always exposed to potentially catastrophic events....ask a SF trader from earlier this year....or FXCM for that matter. I would just prefer to eliminate as much of the low hanging fruit as possible. I simply tried to involve 2 parties (AMP & SC support) that seemingly have no interaction with each other. My efforts have mainly been to inform traders who trade with this specific setup to be on alert for this real-world discrepancy. |
| [2015-08-19 01:41:55] |
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The only times the open position status/qty has been incorrect is specifically with the trio of SC, TTNet, and an AMP originated auto-liquidate event.
At this moment in time we do not know what specific value you are referring to in Sierra Chart? Was was it Open Quantity on the Trade Stats for Charts tab? We do not think so. We think you are referring to the Position Quantity you see on the Positions tab of the Trade Orders and Positions window. That is where you would see this kind of problem you are describing here.I simply tried to involve 2 parties (AMP & SC support) that seemingly have no interaction with each other. My efforts have mainly been to inform traders who trade with this specific setup to be on alert for this real-world discrepancy. We understand that. But from what we can tell, they did not encounter an incorrect Trade Service Position Quantity value in Sierra Chart on the Positions tab which the Flatten functionality relies upon. So they were never in any risk of being misled when looking at that tab or using the Flatten command or when looking at the Position reporting within a chart or Trade DOM. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2015-08-19 01:43:07
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| [2015-08-19 02:01:01] |
| bekitz3 - Posts: 83 |
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From what I read from the other user, it sounded like they were auto-liquidated yet SC showed them being short 3 Sept-CL contracts. Only they can confirm if this was actually the case. It seemed to immediately ring a bell though from a real-world trading perspective. For me personally, I am referring to open positions. These examples are clearly illustrated in threads cited in post #10. What this means is that the Trade DOM or any charts where I have "Show Order Positions" enabled were reflecting an inaccurate position relative to reality. And this was induced from an AMP/TTNet auto-liquidate event (similar to the user's description) The problem here is you cannot duplicate this from a simulated point of view because AMP/TTNet auto-liquidate is only dealing with real money accounts. |
| [2015-08-19 02:20:08] |
| bekitz3 - Posts: 83 |
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I should also point out that when I originally reported this issue in SC/TTNet not talking with AMP auto-trim/liquidate I stated that AMP was using XTrader on the TT side to perform this auto-liquidate "service". This was incorrect as noted in post #16 here: Sometimes life has long complex problems (AMP/TTNet) It was explained to me that AMP's auto-liquidate for TTNet is a proprietary software/setup independent of trader software selection. Just as AMP's auto-liquidate for CQG is also. Each one is different/exclusive as was explained to me. As explained earlier: SC >> TTNet >> AMP/TTNet liquidation software = no comm SC >> CQG >> AMP/CQG liquidation software = comm |
| [2015-08-19 18:01:23] |
| bekitz3 - Posts: 83 |
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But from what we can tell, they did not encounter an incorrect Trade Service Position Quantity value in Sierra Chart on the Positions tab which the Flatten functionality relies upon
There is no information in this post that indicates that conclusion.The only thing close to it is in post #3: The Orders and Positions window does reflect that I have no open or working orders
This would indicate the Orders tab was clear. But there is no mention of the Positions tab (middle tab)
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| [2015-08-19 18:24:10] |
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The user has more than enough information now from us about this to have an understanding as to the source of the problem. This is also the relevant documentation section: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/doc_TradeStatusWindows.html#IncorrectlyReportedTradePosition Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2015-08-20 05:01:41
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| [2015-08-19 19:20:59] |
| bekitz3 - Posts: 83 |
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Ok....you guys are right. Based on the user's last comments in post #11....specifically: WOW. Thanks Bekitz3. Now I understand what is going on. You are right indeed. There is no communication between Amp/TTNET auto liquidation and SC/TTNET
This clearly indicates that they currently believe the root of the problem lies somewhere within the documentation you've cited. |
| [2015-08-20 05:00:07] |
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The calculation method description for Open Quantity on the Trade Stats for Charts tab at post #13 has been updated.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
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