Support Board
Date/Time: Sun, 24 Nov 2024 15:07:44 +0000
Severe lag on newer versions
View Count: 2124
| [2023-11-24 21:42:03] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 17156 |
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The Denali Data Feed is now running on a new ISP. If the issue is network/Internet related, we hope there is an improvement but ultimately this is something that we cannot control. The very latest prerelease also has a graphics performance optimization we have implemented. That would only make a small difference though, but perhaps for some users it could be significant. Otherwise, we just simply see no evidence of any kind of lag problem in newer versions. This really does not make technical sense. Since nothing has changed and we verified that there is no difference compared to recent versions compared to a version year ago. And in general performance is better because from time to time there are performance improvements being made. Perhaps there is a particular study, maybe a custom study that has some inefficiency that could be contributing to the problem. But this can be ruled out just by removing studies from the charts. Here is further information: High CPU Usage | Inactive User Interface | Poor Performance | Long Time to Load Chart Data | Charts Reloading Often: 30.48 - Basic Steps to Resolve Performance Issue in Sierra Chart Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2023-11-24 21:42:50
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| [2023-11-27 19:08:08] |
| zippyzip - Posts: 293 |
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where you ever able to make a comparison video of your dom ? i tried 2565 today and its slight improvement but the dom is still super behind compared , this is 1 instance , 1 dom , no studies .
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| [2023-11-27 19:13:21] |
| USER0007 - Posts: 22 |
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Experiencing the same issue with the latest version, severe lag, even with OpenGL turned on. When can we expect a fix for this ? The software is almost unusable at the moment; it used to perform better before.
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| [2023-11-27 19:15:00] |
| User833286 - Posts: 14 |
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same issue with the latest version, lot of lag, not usable at the moment
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2023-11-27 19:15:37
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| [2023-11-27 20:57:03] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 17156 |
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None of this is making any sense to us. Especially these characterizations of "severe lag". "Lot of lag". "Almost unusable at the moment", "super behind compared" We are seeing absolutely none of this. We think this is probably hardware related. We want you to disable hyperthreading in the BIOS settings on your computer. And in the Power Management settings on Windows, use the High Performance option and confirm that the Minimum Processor Speed is at 100%. CPUs do have very advanced power management, and perhaps newer versions of Sierra Chart, which actually may be more efficient, are being managed differently by the CPU with less processing time. More information: https://itnext.io/power-efficiency-for-performance-deficiency-a1ef79d1379b?gi=9ef8033a71c0 We will do some additional performance testing but this takes time. It is not something we can do quickly. We may implement performance monitoring, that the user can enable themselves. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2023-11-27 21:18:09] |
| zippyzip - Posts: 293 |
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so can you post a video of a dom in comparison to another dom ? this way i can atleast narrow it down to my end
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| [2023-11-27 21:21:02] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 17156 |
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We will see if we can do the video, but every time we do the video it slows the update rate down on the desktop. So it is not representative of the actual update rate that we are seeing. And besides it is better for us to implement some more precise measurement of performance. So that is what we are going to be doing. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2023-11-27 21:21:20
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| [2023-11-27 21:27:19] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 17156 |
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Also, do follow our instructions regarding disabling CPU hyperthreading and power management. Another thing is to disable security and antivirus and anti-malware software. One thing we want you to do is to look at the Windows Task Manager Details tab and see how many Threads you see for the Sierra Chart_64 process as compared to an earlier version where you do not notice the problem. Maybe it is an issue related to threads. The same Sierra Chart that you use, is the same Sierra Chart, that is used in our server environments that processes massive amounts of data very efficiently and with no lag, and route orders in one fourth of a millisecond (~.000250 second). And it runs super efficiently. Of course we do have our servers well optimized at the hardware and operating system level. We also do not use the newfangled demonically possessed Windows operating systems. We use Windows 7 and Server 2012. In some cases server 2016, but it is not clear whether there is a performance difference between Server 2012 and Server 2016. But we certainly stay the hell away from any newer OS versions. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2023-11-27 22:44:37
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| [2023-11-27 22:23:03] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 17156 |
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We also want to explain power management, on computers. There are both operating system settings for this and also settings at the hardware level in the BIOS. In the case of Dell computers in particular Dell servers, there are various power management settings, both with the CPU settings, and also, in the system configuration. You will want to check your BIOS and try altering the power management settings for maximum performance. Changing the settings only in the operating system, may not have any effect or not make too much of a difference. Servers we use for order routing and processing CME multicast feeds, are set for maximum performance and the CPUs speed are always 100%. The servers, have high-performance fans, and are pulling in cold data center air and have very good cooling. This is how we can achieve ultra low latency order routing. Since we cannot afford the delay for the CPU to be clocking up to a higher speed. The servers do draw more power, but we need that. In other applications, depending upon what the server is used for, the CPU may not always be running at 100% but they may be at 60% or higher. It depends upon the application. We will not be working on any videos, but instead be implementing precise time calculations, of all that is involved with calculations and updating of a chart or Trading DOM. The other areas, of the program relevant would be network I/O, and data feed processing. Network I/O has not changed, and is very high-performance. It is the same as we use on our servers. Data feed processing is also implemented with extreme high performance. It is the same data processing, which processes entire exchange feeds on our servers tracking in some cases 80000+ symbols at a time in a single instance. ---- Other things to do to improve performance on your system is increasing the amount of memory, and disable the paging file. Our servers run typically 512 GB and there is no paging file. We are not saying you need such massive amounts of memory like this, but this is what we do use. Usually 32 GB is enough for a desktop computer. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2023-11-28 00:00:48
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| [2023-11-28 06:40:46] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 17156 |
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We have done our initial performance comparison between versions. The analysis right now is somewhat crude because we need to to implement averaging of the timings. Testing version 2566 against version 2480 (From February 2023) using a Chartbook with the Chart DOM, displaying 100 levels of depth, pulling and stacking data, one study, candlestick bars, with no bar spacing, so a lot of dense graphics, 2566 roughly is like 10% faster but we have not done the exact math. It is certainly not slower. So there certainly is no severe lag at all. This is just simply not correct. It is the opposite. Newer versions are delivering higher performance. So what we said at the beginning of the thread absolutely is correct: Severe lag on newer versions | Post: 362332 Definitely we believe that the issue that some users are having is system specific. For whatever reason, your system is just simply not efficiently running Sierra Chart. Power management may be a significant contributor to this. It is not enough to make operating system changes. You have to go into your system BIOS and disable all of the power saving features. Here is more information on P and C states: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/docs/vtune-profiler/user-guide/2023-0/window-cpu-c-p-states-platform-power-analysis.html One of our developers was saying, than a more efficient program, can be allocated to a lower power core, and then run more poorly as compared to a less efficient program. It could be that due to Sierra Chart's high-efficiency that it is not running on a core running at a high clock speed and every time there is a need for more processing power, it takes time for the CPU to clock up which is causing the lag. You want to get your power management on the computer to a point where when you look at the Task Manager you do not see the CPU frequency changing. It should be locked above the maximum clock speed. It will be above the maximum clock, due to the turbo feature of CPUs. We are not recommending that you always keep your CPU in this state. But it is a good experiment to evaluate the problem. Warning: Please be careful with what we say. We do not want to cause users problems with CPU overheating although they should turn off if there is a serious problem. Maybe it is best to make more moderate adjustments, in order to diagnose the problem. With our servers, we do keep the CPUs at the maximum speed as we previously described, and they do generate a significant amount of heat. And there is more power consumption and heat generation. Ultimately what the problem is, we cannot say for sure. But one thing we are certain of is there is not a performance degradation in newer versions. It is the opposite. There is an improvement or it is the same. We will have more information once we implement the averaging. And this will be released as a feature that you can use. The only other thing we did not measure is network I/O but there is no point in that because nothing has changed with this, and this already has an extreme high-performance implementation which is used in our servers, handling massive massive amounts of more data compared to users. The data feed processing also has not changed and is exceptionally fast. These two categories of processing, run on separate threads. Newer versions of Sierra Chart do have a significant amount of more threads. We will see what that is about. Perhaps that is causing the problem. But it should not. And if there is a problem in your case from this, once again it probably relates to power management. These threads are in a wait state. In any case, we are going to be looking into this. Another thing you can do, is set this setting to 10000 or higher: Advanced Service Settings: Intraday File Flush Time in Milliseconds (Global Settings >> Advanced Service Settings >> Other) So in conclusion, there is nothing for us to be doing other than to look into the additional threads. These versions are delivering higher performance. You need to resolve the problem on your side. And even thinking about this some more, the performance timing functionality that we will be offering, can be totally misleading because if your system is causing Sierra Chart to run more slowly, then you will see higher timings and attributing it to a particular version when the version was never the problem to begin with, instead it was your hardware. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2023-11-28 08:23:06
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| [2023-11-28 13:04:51] |
| zippyzip - Posts: 293 |
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you simply are not understanding the point , i can pull up cqg dom , tos dom ,quanttower dom , and there light speeds faster , not sure why you keep comparing to to previous SC versions . there is simply a issue with data , its not the pc
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| [2023-11-28 14:40:54] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 17156 |
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We do not know what the cause of the problem is in your case. We simply do not observe this at all. We have attached a video. This does not actually show the real number of updates per second which is higher. When we do the video it just slows down. The real number of updates is about 50 to 100% more. So this may only be showing about half of the number of updates per second. This video shows MES futures. Which may not be updating as frequently as ES futures. There is higher order activity on the larger ES futures. In the video wait for the time of 9:30, the open, and you will see very frequent updating. But still direct observation shows a higher number of updates. The original post in this thread, is about a version specific issue. If you are having a different issue, you should not be posting in this thread. (Actually we see, you are the same user who started the thread) We are quite certain, there is no problem on new versions. This is abundantly clear but we will look into the higher number of threads. Which was something that we were going to be looking into anyway, for unrelated reasons. And thinking about it some more, newer versions have other performance improvements as well. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2024-02-16 03:40:36
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 USStockMarketOpenChartDOMUpdating_Video_2023-11-28_093106.wmv - Attached On 2023-11-28 14:36:10 UTC - Size: 50.92 MB - 245 views |
| [2023-11-28 14:49:39] |
| User833286 - Posts: 14 |
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SC folks, just do a simple experiment, compare Sierra DOM with another DOM and you will see what we are saying. just do this simple experiment, you keep talking about standalone sierra comparisons but thats not the point here. |
| [2023-11-28 14:51:18] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 17156 |
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No we do not see what you are saying at all. We see the exact opposite. The exact opposite. Look at the video we provided.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2023-11-28 14:51:33
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| [2023-11-28 14:55:17] |
| zippyzip - Posts: 293 |
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thank you for the video , you are correct it is what i expect it to look like , now issue is getting rest of us to that speed . thanks for posting video
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| [2023-11-28 19:49:13] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 17156 |
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Yes, and that is not representative of the actual speed you would see. For some reason the video just slows down the rate of updating of the entire desktop, or its own frame rate cannot keep up. We have already provide all of the relevant information to improve performance in the first post. We did link to the relevant information in our first post in this thread. This would be the most relevant link: Chart Trading and the Chart DOM: Improving Performance Of Chart / Trade DOM As an experiment just have one chart open and configure it with the Chart DOM and go through those performance improvements. We have also added changes you should make with power management, which we will document, and we will also document how you can control the priority of the Sierra Chart process through the Windows task manager. We really are in disbelief over this thread. We are running a computer using an Intel 6th generation CPU, an older discontinued CPU, with Windows 7 and 40+ charts, over a long-haul high latency connection, and receiving considerably faster updates per second than you are. And this is precisely why we are suspecting power management as being the cause of the problem. Or you are just not following the instructions we gave in our immediate reply to this thread. Another one of our systems, is a Dell rackmounted server, an older generation running Server 2008, 32 cores very fast and responsive and capable system. We run Sierra Chart on that, and watch it with an RDP connection. All proven stable technology. This is another technique is to run Sierra Chart on a separate computer, and RDP into it. This considerably eliminates the graphics load that Sierra Chart would place on the system. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2023-11-28 20:02:13
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| [2023-11-28 20:04:00] |
| zippyzip - Posts: 293 |
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I will say I have a i9 1300k with 64gb rm 4070ti gpu and Ran 1 dom to send org video , and my dom doesn't move anywhere near that speed , no studies , 1 instance , 1 dom no charts
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| [2023-11-28 20:26:49] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 17156 |
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This is why we suspect power management. Sierra Chart being more efficient, it may be assigned to a lower power core causing it to run more slowly. There's something unusual going on in your case. To rule out other things we did not think of try a new installation of Sierra Chart with the default configuration and then make the adjustments for performance, link given in the prior post, and set the Sierra Chart server settings as shown in the screenshot. And you are still not even seeing the true speed in that video. The video does not show it. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2023-11-28 20:27:19
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 SierraChartServerSettings_2023-11-28_122420.png / V - Attached On 2023-11-28 20:25:30 UTC - Size: 17.94 KB - 116 views |
| [2024-05-23 14:00:25] |
| User850752 - Posts: 2 |
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Another day with being extremely frustrated with lag (consistent with market open and high volume events where price can lag up to a minute or so) I found that if the Quote Board update interval isn't the same as the chart, the price will not catch back up. The price will continue to lag. Seems like there may need to be one setting for both or an update to the code to diverge the two. I'm now running at 50ms for both, and happily watched Sierra Chart catch back up to the market and stay there so far. Date Time Of Last Edit: 2024-05-23 14:03:47
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| [2024-05-23 22:46:51] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 17156 |
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If you are using a very low update interval for the Quote Board, and there was a lot of processing involved, for example if sorting is required, and there are a lot of rows, then it might get behind. We will resolve that in the next release.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2024-05-23 23:48:20] |
| User850752 - Posts: 2 |
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I wasn't initially, but it helped when I matched it to the chart refresh rate, for the charts as well. I also noticed today that I'm periodically pegging 4 CPU cores on the CPU. I'm changing a few things around, enabling affinity mode for the resource in Windows, disabling hyperthreading and giving it high priority. Let's see how it goes. I'm having issues with orders not getting pushed through properly and charts not updating during high volume events. I'm also going to give Denali data a try to see if it helps.
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