Support Board
Date/Time: Sun, 16 Mar 2025 19:09:31 +0000
Problem with “Move stop to Break-Even” when using “Use Theoretical Position Average Price”
View Count: 1232
| [2022-05-28 13:25:12] |
| Rui S - Posts: 198 |
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Hello Support. Despite the long learning curve of Sierra software, I want you to know I am not the kind of user to reach to you and ask for help for anything without previously research thoroughly for the information I need. So far I have been able to resolve all the problems I had by myself. This time though I can’t find a solution for something I really need and supposedly Sierra software offers to the customers. Explaining my problem: I always use the option “Use Theoretical Position Average Price” in my trading, which is a great feature (I just wish it would also include the trade commissions, but it’s not my point here). My problem is when working with the “Move stop to Break-Even” feature. As a day trader and trading a very fast instrument, very often I scale in and scale out of a position - without closing the position. I have Support Scale in / Out options selected as well. What happens is, Sierra seems to lose track of my Theoretical position average price – just in what regards to this feature “Move stop to Break-Even” – and when moving the stop order to BE, it always goes to a very different price than the one it should have gone (to the actual Theoretical Position Average Price I see in my screen, which is the one I rely on to manage my trades). I assure you that I have researched a lot and have made a lot of testing before reaching to you, but couldn’t find any solution for this. Please advise or do something to correct this issue. |
| [2022-05-31 14:24:37] |
| John - SC Support - Posts: 38678 |
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We are not able to reproduce this. The one thing to make sure of is that you do not have any offset set for the Move to Break Even (or that you are are aware of it). Refer to the following setting: Basic Trading and the Trade Window: Set >> Move to BE Offset If you can give us a set of steps to follow to reproduce, then we can try again. For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2022-05-31 17:41:08] |
| Rui S - Posts: 198 |
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Hello John, Thank you for your reply. It is quite easy to reproduce this issue. It happens with manual BE, auto BE, and with or without offset. It also happens with real and/or simulated accounts. To make the test, set the option “Use Theoretical Position Average Price”, as well as "Support Scale In / Scale Out". Also set an attached stop order. For this testing effect, it is convenient that the stop order is far from the entry price, otherwise you can be stopped out before finishing the test. Then, open a position and start scaling in and scaling out several times (5, 10 times) at different prices, but never closing the position. The further away from the initial entry price you scale in / out, the more you will see the issue. Once you have your position with a profit after all the scaling in/out, just hit the BE button and you will see that the stop order won't be where it should be - at the Position BE Price. You can also try with the auto BE but the outcome will be the same. Believe me, I have been around this problem for a long time now. I have tried every single setting I thought that could be related with it. Unfortunately, the only solution I have found is to do it manually, which is a shame and a waist of the excellent resources of Sierra. Please do your best and try to find a solution for it to work well. Thank you. |
| [2022-06-02 10:40:03] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 18799 |
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The reference price or average price for move to breakeven, has no dependency whatsoever upon the Position Average Price. It is a weighted average price based upon the fill prices of the parent order and any scaling in orders. Possibly we can add a setting to control how this works. The reference price could either be the standard method which is as explained above. Or it could be the position average price as set within the chart. Although we are not sure if there is any implementation difficulty with this. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2022-06-02 10:44:10
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| [2022-06-02 11:15:02] |
| Rui S - Posts: 198 |
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Sierra_Chart Engineering, Thank you for your reply. It is a weighted average price based upon the fill prices of the parent order and any scaling in orders.
You only mention here "scaling in orders" - but there are also scaling out orders in this equation. Is it possible this might be the problem? If so, is there anything you can do to fix it, please? Or it could be the position average price as set within the chart.
Possibly we can add a setting to control how this works.
Please make it work with “Use Theoretical Position Average Price” option as well, I really need it so much. Although we are not sure if there is any implementation difficulty with this.
I trust you will find the best way to implement it. If you couldn't do do it, who else in the world could do it? After all, you are Sierra_Chart Engineering, and like me, most users know you can make "miracules" when you commit yourself to it. I look forward for some good news. Thank you. Date Time Of Last Edit: 2022-06-02 11:17:30
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| [2022-06-02 21:11:50] |
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We will see what can be done. If we can do this, the new setting to control this will be in Global Settings >> Chart Trade Settings.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2022-07-22 19:48:35] |
| Rui S - Posts: 198 |
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We will see what can be done. If we can do this, the new setting to control this will be in Global Settings >> Chart Trade Settings.
Hello Support. I can see you found a way to make the manual "Stop to BE" work with the “Theoretical Position Average Price”, activating the option in Chart Trade Settings / "Always Use Position Average for Reference Price for Breakeven Command". Thank you very much for that. Unfortunately however, it still doesn't work properly with Auto BE - e.g. "Stop: Triggered Trail Stop Limit". After some scaling in/out, the Stop Order doesn´t go to the Position Price, goes to somewhere else further away. This is what I really need to have working reliably, but SC is still losing track of where the Theoretical Position Average Price really is. Would you please take a look at this issue and find a way to make it work as well as you did with the Manual BE? Thank you. P.S. - I became one more Teton happy user today!! Date Time Of Last Edit: 2022-07-22 19:50:19
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| [2022-07-25 12:51:14] |
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We will look this over as soon as we can.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2022-07-27 19:08:35] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 18799 |
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Regarding post #7, due to how the Move to Breakeven functionality for Attached Orders is implemented, this is not possible to do.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2022-07-27 19:36:57] |
| Rui S - Posts: 198 |
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That is really a shame. It is a great functionality, but so we know that it can't used with scaling in / out. Thank you very much for trying and for letting me know. At least now I know it's not possible. Date Time Of Last Edit: 2022-07-27 19:40:32
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| [2022-08-22 20:49:03] |
| Rui S - Posts: 198 |
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Hello Support. Just to remember you the situation: I can see you found a way to make the manual "Stop to BE" work with the “Theoretical Position Average Price”, activating the option in Chart Trade Settings / "Always Use Position Average for Reference Price for Breakeven Command".
I have configured a Keyboard Shortcut through 'File >> Customize Keyboard Shortcuts >> Trading Keyboard Shortcuts' in order to Move my Target to Breakeven. The problem is that after some scaling in/out of the same Position, SC loses track of the Position's price and the Target Order doesn't go to the Position (Theoretical Position Average Price). It is exactly the same situation that was happening with the Stop Orders before you address and fix the issue (Thank you). Would you please make it to work the same way with "Move Target to Breakeven" as well as you did for the Stop Orders? Date Time Of Last Edit: 2022-08-22 20:53:52
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| [2022-08-24 19:03:51] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 18799 |
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We will look this over.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2022-08-25 11:00:05] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 18799 |
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There was never a problem. We did not "address and fix" the issue. You were looking for unsupported behavior. The breakeven level was always properly calculated according to the documentation. Sierra Chart is not losing track of the breakeven price. It is correctly calculated.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2022-08-25 11:00:38
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| [2022-08-25 11:02:49] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 18799 |
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We do not know what specific keyboard shortcut you are referring to here: I have configured a Keyboard Shortcut through 'File >> Customize Keyboard Shortcuts >> Trading Keyboard Shortcuts' in order to Move my Target to Breakeven. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2022-08-25 11:44:57
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| [2022-08-25 12:04:38] |
| Rui S - Posts: 198 |
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We do not know what specific keyboard shortcut you are referring to here:
Sorry, my explanation was not complete. The keyboard shortcut in question is "Trading Keyboard Shortcuts >> Move Attached Targets to Price" |
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