Support Board
Date/Time: Tue, 15 Apr 2025 12:42:45 +0000
[Sticky] - Numbers Bars Malfunction/Exception Issue
View Count: 3273
| [2025-02-05 20:35:45] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 19226 |
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We are aware, that some users are having a problem with the Numbers Bar study which is causing exceptions and then leading to malfunctions. We are going to release a special version to track down this problem. We will let you know when it is released (Should be today). And then we want to do a remote assistance session with someone to get what we call a crash dump file (Located in the CrashReports subfolder of the Sierra Chart installation folder) that we can use to isolate exactly where it is. So far we have been unable to reproduce. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2025-02-06 20:04:16
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| [2025-02-05 23:28:22] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 19226 |
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The new release is now available for testing. If someone is available this evening for testing who is getting the exception with the Numbers Bars study, post here that you would like to help with troubleshooting the issue. The version is prerelease version 2738.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2025-02-06 07:29:43] |
| grayfrog - Posts: 55 |
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I would be happy to be available to help. Currently I am in the UTC +3 time zone but run Sierra Charts on EST UTC -5. I ran a simple test with an ES 5 minute intraday chart, then added Number Bars. I have attached the crash report if this helps at all. |
Private File |
| [2025-02-06 08:03:52] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 19226 |
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Thank you. That is all we really need. We are analyzing this now.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2025-02-06 08:07:44] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 19226 |
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Thank you. This is what we were afraid of. This is very unusual. An invalid instruction exception. Very puzzling. We have never seen this before. It is not reproducible. This is going to require some deep analysis and research. We are quite puzzled by this. It could be something very simple. Maybe the numbers bars function is just too large and we have to break it up into smaller functions. However, why this leads to an invalid instruction exception we do not know but we do know, that unusual problems can occur that are not observable, in a debug environment with large functions and excessive stack sizes. However, at least we can see the problem. We can see exactly where the issue is occurring. But it should be nothing of any issue. And it is not even in our own code. Invalid exception instruction, in a C++ function: template <class _Ty>
_NODISCARD _Post_equal_to_(_Left < _Right ? _Right : _Left) constexpr const _Ty&(max)( const _Ty& _Left, const _Ty& _Right) noexcept(noexcept(_Left < _Right)) /* strengthened */ { // return larger of _Left and _Right [b]return _Left < _Right ? _Right : _Left;[/b]//Exception right here } Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2025-02-06 08:15:18
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| [2025-02-06 08:16:30] |
| grayfrog - Posts: 55 |
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While I have absolutely no programming knowledge, I'm available to help test if you need anytime. I don't know if it makes a difference but to clarify, I am running Windows 11 pro on an Apple M2 chip using Parallels. I have the two machines isolated from each other. |
| [2025-02-06 08:20:33] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 19226 |
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We really need to have someone get us the crash dump file, who are using an Intel or AMD CPU. We need an x64 CPU.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2025-02-06 08:29:18] |
| grayfrog - Posts: 55 |
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I figured. That's why I clarified the system I'm using. I have a work laptop that I will try to get a crash dump file off of.
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| [2025-02-06 08:33:14] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 19226 |
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Yes we need to see that. This is essential..
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2025-02-06 09:24:21] |
| grayfrog - Posts: 55 |
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For the native Intel x64 chip, the Number Bars studies do appear to work correctly. For an experiment, instead of Number Bars, I used a custom study that is built off Number Bars from TDU and it seems to have created an exception but did not crash and so no crash log was created. Since the custom study is not a Sierra Chart study it's unlikely related to Sierra Chart but I have sent the message log anyway if it helps. It would seem that the issue may be with Parallels or using an Apple silicon chip so you are correct that (at least in my estimation) it isn't a Sierra Chart issue. Maybe others will have more to add? Thank you for looking into this and sorry to take up your time. |
| [2025-02-06 09:48:03] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 19226 |
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Regarding what we found at post #5, the particular CPU you are using does not support the instruction, that the compiler generated. The instruction is vmovss. What we want to know is that users who are having the exception problem are they using CPUs other than Intel and AMD X64? Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2025-02-06 09:58:56
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| [2025-02-06 10:12:26] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 19226 |
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What version of parallels are you using? This information may be helpful regarding this issue: https://kb.parallels.com/130217 The CPU you are using does not support the instructions used in the executable. We do not know why there is a problem now and not previously. Did you recently update parallels or change settings related to it? Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2025-02-06 10:13:22
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| [2025-02-06 10:43:42] |
| User410102 - Posts: 3 |
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My number bars study do not work properly anymore since I downloaded version 2737. I am using the latest version of parallels desktop on a mac M1. It has always worked perfectly until now. I tried with version 2738, sierra is shutting down as soon as I click on the chart tab with the number bar study. Date Time Of Last Edit: 2025-02-06 10:58:37
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| [2025-02-06 11:29:42] |
| grayfrog - Posts: 55 |
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For what it's worth, I just updated my MacOS (I noticed there was an update) to 15.3 and here are some observations: As specified above: Apple M2 Max chip, Parallels 20.2.0, Windows 11 pro - Running Sierra Chart from SierraChart_ARM64 using version 2737, number bars seems to load correctly and without the prior crash. - Running Sierra Chart from SierraChart_ARM64 using version 2737, custom studies from a 3rd party vendor (TDU) do not show up - Running Sierra Chart from SierraChart_ARM64 using version 2737, Renko charts appear to be working again. - Running Sierra Chart from SierraChart_64 using version 2737, number bars do not load (the chart becomes blank) but does not crash - Running Sierra Chart from SierraChart_64 using version 2737, the custom studies from a 3rd party vendor (TDU) DO show up under custom studies Not sure if this helps. Date Time Of Last Edit: 2025-02-06 11:34:44
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| [2025-02-06 11:40:45] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 19226 |
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Our recommendation is to use this: - Running Sierra Chart from SierraChart_ARM64 using version 2737, number bars seems to load correctly and without the prior crash.
And we will add support to build custom studies for ARM 64 that any custom study developer can use. Through our remote build feature even if they are not using the ARM version of Sierra Chart. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2025-02-06 11:40:54
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| [2025-02-06 11:42:44] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 19226 |
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Regarding post #13 that particular CPU is ARM based, so you need to use the ARM 64 version of Sierra Chart. You will find that executable in the Sierra Chart installation folder.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2025-02-06 11:53:46] |
| grayfrog - Posts: 55 |
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Thank you for all your time on this. It is greatly appreciated.
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| [2025-02-06 12:14:44] |
| User410102 - Posts: 3 |
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Regarding post number #16. I used the ARM 64 version of Sierra, my number bar charts are displayed correctly, but I lost my custom studies from a 3rd party vendor.
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| [2025-02-06 15:39:59] |
| seandunaway - Posts: 348 |
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So this seems to be a bug in macOS's Rosetta2 which translates x64 instructions to the native arm64 instructions, creating an illegal instruction? edit: Sorry, in this instance it would be Window 11's "Prism" doing the translation which Microsoft admits is tuned to Qualcomm Snapdragon processors. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/apps-on-arm-x86-emulation It's not clear if the issue is in the Prism translation, the Parallels virtual machine incorrectly handling the instruction or the Apple Virtualization Framework It seems the only timely fix for SC users is for arm devices to run the arm release (and studies) and x64 devices to run the x64 release (and studies) I think the popular compilers have a way to not emit that vmovss instruction (-mno-avx in clang), or reduce the optimization level, but that seems like a crummy compromise Date Time Of Last Edit: 2025-02-06 16:11:53
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| [2025-02-06 16:17:36] |
| seandunaway - Posts: 348 |
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Can we have someone using something other than Parallels for virtualization test this? (e.g. sc user @ForgivingComputers.com using vmware) If we can isolate the layer and if it's just a Parallels problem I will put together and submit the bug report. They're really good about getting fixes out quickly. If it's at the Microsoft or Apple layer, RIP One thing is clear is it's not at any fault of Sierra Chart Date Time Of Last Edit: 2025-02-06 16:21:19
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| [2025-02-06 16:21:04] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 19226 |
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First thing we are going to do, is provide the capability within Sierra Chart to build a custom study CPP file for ARM 64 even if using the standard Intel X64 version of Sierra Chart. And we will make sure, that Sierra Chart picks the right DLL to use depending upon whether the Intel/AMD X64 or ARM 64 version is used. If anyone running Windows is getting an exception when using Numbers Bars or sees other exceptions when using Sierra Chart, let us know. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2025-02-06 20:28:54] |
| User696921 - Posts: 4 |
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Hi, I am having a similar issue with Numbers Bar and I am runniung Sierra Chart on Windows 10 pro on direct hardware i.e. pyshical machine on intel CPU ( no VMware or Parallels ). I also swtiched to Mircosoft Surface with intel CPU but no luck, error is persistent and don't think possibly related to X64 or ARM64 ! |
| [2025-02-07 03:19:12] |
| r4ved4ve - Posts: 7 |
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I had a problem with the connection to Rithmic two nights ago, and I tried many things to fix it: played with firewall, updated Windows installed in my Parallels, and updated Sierra Chart. But. I did not update Parallels themselves. So, if it is not a Sierra fault (which I thought initially), it makes Windows update a culprit. Hope that helps. |
| [2025-02-07 07:26:45] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 19226 |
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Regarding post #22, we will need to help you with this, Friday. Set your telephone number here: https://www.sierrachart.com/UserControlPanel.php?page=ManageAccountInfo Let us know when that is done and we will be able to call you in the afternoon, US time. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2025-02-07 22:09:05] |
| Chris32 - Posts: 60 |
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Something happened after version 2732. It works fine with that version. I use Parallels also. With 2737 I have to use the ARM version for it to work but it's not really an option as I have many custom studies that aren't compatible. Date Time Of Last Edit: 2025-02-07 22:09:37
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