Support Board
Date/Time: Sun, 22 Dec 2024 09:22:01 +0000
[User Discussion] - Staging and modifying bracket order levels before transmitting to server?
View Count: 2413
| [2015-04-02 13:58:44] |
| VPhantom - Posts: 18 |
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Hello, I searched quite a bit on this forum, read through the related documentation, but couldn't find the information, so here goes. :) First, my background in case any of it is relevant: I'm experienced with IB's TWS, I'm currently using SierraChart stand-alone to simulate trades in replayed historical data, with an eye on possibly using it with I.B. and probably with CTS T4. All my positions are server-side brackets and I have specific prices for all 3 in mind when I initiate a position. In TWS, you prepare an order, edit all its details, including attaching bracket OCO's and then you click "Transmit" to actually send the finished trio to their server. The only way I found to approximate this in SierraChart is to pre-configure a bracket order default with point/tick distances very roughly in the ballpark for my chosen instrument, enter my entry limit price and submit. Then, after the whole order is placed and becomes visible on the chart, I can move the stop-loss and limit target horizontal lines to where I actually want them to be. With an actual broker, this would involve two unnecessary order modification requests. Is there any way in SierraChart to specify actual stop-loss and target limit prices rather than relative distances? If not, then is there a way to "stage" a bracket order in such a way that I could form it, then adjust its prices BEFORE it gets actually sent to the server? (I still need all 3 to be server-side, so deactivating server-side brackets isn't a suitable work-around.) I don't think either broker charges fees such modifications, although I've seen some mention a concept of "abusive" or "unnecessary" modifications, so I'd prefer the cleanest workflow possible. Thanks to whoever sees this and can help, for their time. :) |
| [2015-04-02 17:56:44] |
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There is not user interface support for this. You could custom program something like this using ACSIL, but this is beyond the scope of our support. Refer to: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/doc_ACSILTrading.html Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2015-04-02 19:49:09
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| [2015-04-02 18:48:46] |
| VPhantom - Posts: 18 |
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There is not user interface support for this.
Thank you. Just curious, is there any plan for allowing this in the future? I figure the Targets tab would "just" need a 4th type, which would be an absolute price. Not as tidy as TWS's 3-line order entry at one glance, but quite functional and within the current UI.For anyone reading this in the future: I'll work around this small limitation by changing the points of both targets manually in the Targets tab before sending each trade. It involves calculating the differences from the entry limit price manually, but cleanly avoids sending order modification requests, which keeps the broker happy. I take my time to plan out each trade anyway, so another 30 seconds isn't a problem. You could custom program something like this using ACSIL,
Good to know, but my C++'s rudimentary and I wouldn't trust it with real money. ;-) Looks like ACSIL would allow me to build some preview of the 3 horizontal lines ahead of time, but that's beyond me. Calculating offsets will have to do for now.
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| [2015-04-02 21:00:20] |
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We just realized there probably is another way you can do this which is easy. By using the Spreadsheet System for Trading study, you can specify the attached order offsets programmatically like through spreadsheet formulas. Refer to: http://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/doc_SystemsAlerts.php And here is the specific documentation for the cells that control the Attached Order offsets: http://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/doc_SystemsAlerts.php#AttachedOrderTargetOffset The order does have to be initiated from the spreadsheet, but it is possible to do this. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2015-04-02 21:00:46
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| [2015-04-02 22:08:14] |
| i960 - Posts: 360 |
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I actually wrote down a bunch of thoughts on this a few days back based on real world usage patterns during trading and I think what the OP is suggesting is highly valuable (and probably non-coincidentally seems to coincide with my own thoughts). This is what I wrote down in my notes: Allow 3 phase order entry for attached orders where a buy/sell entry is clicked on in the chartdom, an attached stop order appears (in already movable mode so the order can be immediately shifted with the mouse), and then finally an attached target order appears (also in already movable mode so the order can be immediately shifted with the mouse). After the 3rd stage is done the order is transmitted. Hitting escape or right clicking (similar to how one bails out of new drawings) anytime before the last order is done will result in canceling the entire thing and not transmitting anything. Notable configurable settings for this: 1. Allow order of stop/target to be user specifiable such that the target could be the 2nd phase and the stop the 3rd phase. Some people may know quickly where their target will be, regardless of the stop, but may wait on where to choose the stop based on watching price action. This would allow them to keep the 3rd phase "open" while watching price (they simply haven't clicked through yet), and then finally once they click-submit the last phase it goes through as normal. 2. It might be beneficial to allow order placement/control to adhere to user specified "use click release click method" configuration setting. Most people using this "3 phase order entry" will probably be using "use click release click method" as it would work very well with this type of order entry method (user clicks entry in dom, entry implicitly appears and target appears as already movable which they shift up and down with mouse, click, stop appears as already movable which they shift up and down with mouse, click, transmitted) but perhaps there might be a way that works for the non "use click release click method" people as well; however this really just a minor aspect of the feature and may not be required to implement. 3. Maybe escape cancels entire process and right click just goes back a phase (rather than entirely cancels) such that a stop or target could be corrected if clicked through too soon? Not sure, might not be used that much. Why use this feature at all? Because static attached order offsets only work for price action/volatility that's always consistent. Obviously another trade profile could be selected for different volatility types, but why not just allow the user to dynamically control the offsets on order entry rather than requiring attached oco orders to be adjusted (and in a lot of cases canceled/retransmitted) based on a 3 phase entry approach (entry->target->stop or entry->stop->target). Nobody in the real world goes to the trade window and says "okay, I'm gonna change this trade to risk 7 ticks and set my target at 28 ticks away from here because that's where the last significant support or resistance is." That requires computing the tick offsets in your head where it'd actually be faster putting in direct prices rather than tick offsets. However, nobody wants to do that either because it defeats the entire point of trading from a chart or a DOM in the first place - speed based on what you already see. So in the real world what actually happens is people set a generic 1:3 stop:target ratio with some normal stop loss amount (like 10 ticks), they submit their opening order based on where they want to go long/short and then immediately move all of the attached stops and targets to where they actually should be based on price action and support/resistance. Most likely this occurs for people 100% of the time, exposes them to temporary risk before they can actually move the orders, and it just pointless tedium. To be able to just click on open/entry (as we do now), have a stop line show up (in already draggable mode), click to lock it in, and then the target line show up (in already draggable mode), and finally click to lock that in is a *significant* workflow improvement for people and quite honestly I think many people would really appreciate. As a bonus, position size could be dynamically scaled based on a user specifiable "max loss per trade" value (based on position P/L setting) such that if I said "I'm willing to risk 10 ticks on every trade,", yet my stop was 5 ticks, it could automatically size up or down. However, that's really pie in the sky stuff not needed for an initial implementation. It would also definitely help Eurex (DAX, Bund, etc) and OEC traders the former who are charged for order cancellation and the latter who cannot even adjust server side bracket orders without cancelling the entire bracket (which I'd imagine is a serious pain in the ass and workaround client side OCOs are a straight up risk). Aside from that it's healthy innovation that increases trading efficiency. Date Time Of Last Edit: 2015-04-02 22:11:17
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| [2015-04-03 17:30:33] |
| VPhantom - Posts: 18 |
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Thank you for the spreadsheet suggestion. Being relatively new to SierraChart, I hadn't noticed the "Risk/Reward Tool" until today. This is a great way to stage a bracket on the chart! :) It also computes ticks and/or points from entry to each of the two exits so I don't have to, which eliminates an important risk of typo errors. |
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